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John
Cephas, Piedmont Blues Musician: Interview
Introduction | Regional
Background | Music Sample | Teaching
Tools
In February of 1998
CARTS interviewed John Cephas using questions submitted by web site visitors.
On this page you'll find a list of contributors, questions asked, John's
interview responses.
Like many traditional
musicians, John Cephas learned to play guitar and sing within his community
and did not earn a living from music until he retired in 1987. Since then
he has made several recordings and toured the world with a young harmonica
or "harp" player, Phil Wiggins. Cephas & Wiggins perform for many students.
Paddy Bowman, Coordinator of the National Task Force on Folk Arts in Education,
interviewed John Cephas on February 23, 1998. He was delighted to answer
the questions that students from around the United States asked him on
CARTS. Following the transcription of his interview are some ideas for
student activities. CARTS welcomes students' reactions to the interview,
to the suggested activities, or to their own classroom activities related
to this musical residency. Many thanks to students, teachers, and John
Cephas for contributing to this residency.
We wish to thank
the following people and organizations for their excellent contributions
to this interview:
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We recommend
that, in conjunction with their online interviews, students research
traditions in their own communities and interview tradition bearers
in their own neighborhoods. There are many printed and online resources
designed to maximize the learning potential of community-based interviews.
For example, the American Folklife Center at the Library of Congress
distributes a handy publication, Folklife
& Fieldwork, by Peter Bartis, (single copies available free
by calling 202/707-6590). Many other similar resources may be found
throughout CARTS. To help students get the most out of their interviews,
we offer the following set of guidelines:
Asking Good
Interview Questions
Interviewing people is one of the tools folklorists use to study
culture. In addition to having curiosity, a good interviewer needs
to be a good listener. Asking questions that produce interesting
answers isn't always easy. Lots of questions may be answered with
just a simple "yes" or "no" and don't tend to
lead to in-depth responses. Try to develop open-ended questions
that encourage someone to talk.
Before you
ask a question of someone else, ask yourself what information you're
really looking for. Are you looking for ways someone's life is similar
to or different from your own? How someone performs or creates something?
How someone learned or taught something? What someone's childhood,
schooling, or occupation were like? How the landscape looks where
someone lives? How will you use the answer?
Good interviewers
also do some investigating in preparation for their interviews.
Take time to study the Artist Profile and brainstorm a list of questions
you'd like to ask the artist. Then review your questions and practice
by asking them to a friend. Lots of times we don't get the kind
of answer we expect and we need to revise our questions, making
them easier for the interviewee to understand.
Remember to
be polite about what you ask. There's a lot to be learned from others
if we take time to ask and to listen.
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M.E. Francis - Cashell Elementary School, MD
Phillip Michaels - P&L School, TN
John Thickey
& his students - Rochester Elementary School, PA
Megan Roberto - Boyes Elementary School, ID
Dennis Beck and his Art Class - Early County Middle School, GA
Barb Backler - Harmony School, IN
Questions
Asked of John by CARTS Visitors:
- Do you feel that
in order to play the Blues well, you have to play it all the time, in
exclusion to other types of music? John's Answer
- Do you sometimes
wish you had pursued your music career earlier? John's
Answer
- What are the experiences
you had as a child that influenced you to become a musician? Was there
a particular person who had a lot of influence on your decision? John's
Answer
- Tell about a book
or two that you've read that you think other people should read. John's
Answer
- Why do you like
to play the guitar? John's Answer
- Did you ever write
a song yourself? If you did write a song, how did you decide what to
write about? John's Answer
- Who were your influences
when you were learning to play? John's Answer
- Why the Blues?
John's Answer
- Where do you continue
to receive inspiration for composing and singing? John's
Answer
- What other kinds
of music do you like to sing or listen to? John's
Answer
- Why do you like
to sing folk ballads? John's Answer
- Where did you first
learn of John Henry? John's Answer
- What kinds of songs
did you sing in church as a child? John's Answer
- How do you compose
a song? John's Answer
- What was the first
song you composed or sang professionally? John's
Answer
- What is your most
favorite song? John's Answer
- Besides your aunt,
do you have other family members who sing or play? John's
Answer
- Are you married?
Do you have children? If so, do they like the Blues also? John's
Answer
- Do you use computer
technology? Have you visitited your online CARTS residency? If so, what
do you think? John's Answer
- Which is your favorite
Cephas and Wiggins recording? John's Answer
- Do people in other
countries know about the Blues? John's Answer
- Can you read music?
John's Answer
John
Cephas' Responses
(Paddy Bowman, Interviewer & Transcriber)
Q1:
Do you feel that to play the blues well, you have to play it all the time,
in exclusion to other types of music?
With the blues, as with almost any other kind of music, you wouldn't necessarily
have to play it all the time, but practice is the most important thing.
If you want to specialize in a type of music, if you practice it and you're
dedicated to it and you have ambitions to play it, then you would perfect
your skills the more that you practice. Now if you play blues, the blues
has its own technique, its own feeling, its own emotion, and to play the
blues by itself you wouldn't necessarily have to just play blues. Other
music is also adapted to blues. Almost all pop music that you hear has
some influence from blues. The main thing is practice, in blues or any
other kind of music. That is the key to success.
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Q2:
Do you sometimes wish you had pursued your music career earlier?
The type of music that I play wasn't prominent enough that I could have
launched a successful career because when I grew up the blues wasn't considered
concert hall-worthy. If I could have started earlier and figured that
I could make a living at doing that, I would have been very happy to do
that. But I grew up in a society where there was a lot of segregation,
and things that Black people did didn't have a lot of merit. But as I
grew older, then the blues got more exposure, and people who were interested
in this music and saw its true worth brought it out, exposed it, opened
up doors for artists to perform before many audiences. Today blues has
a high position in the music world, and it's because of so many people's
efforts at exposing the blues and so many musicians' efforts at performing
it.
I started off doing
construction work, the only thing available to me since I didn't get an
education. My parents weren't able to send me to college. I didn't finish
the tenth grade, and the only thing available was non-skilled labor, and
I did that until I learned how to do carpentry work as an apprentice with
one of the Black-owned construction companies. Then I later acquired a
journeyman's license as a carpenter after taking tests. All during that
time I did play music at house parties, just music for enjoyment, not
knowing it would one day be my main support in these later years, when
the music I played all these years in my youth turned out to be worthy
of concert stages around the world. I'm at that stage right now. I retired
from being a carpenter in 1987. I don't lift a hammer now if I don't have
to!
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Q3:
What were some experiences you had as a child that influenced you to become
a musician? Was there a particular person who had a lot of influence on
your decision?
I guess my main influence came from the environment I used to live in.
When I grew up as a kid in Washington, DC, and Caroline County, VA, naturally
I grew up in a segregated society. On weekends and times for celebrations
in the Black community, all the folk used to join themselves together
and they used have house parties. They would bring their instruments and
they would come and they would sing, play piano, fiddle, banjo, and have
all this wonderful music. As a kid, I heard this music and when I grew
up I couldn't help but fall right into that same mold because this is
what I heard and what they enjoyed and what I enjoyed. As far as any main
influence, my aunt Lillian Dudley was my main influence. She was one of
the main people at house parties. She's still alive and knows how much
I learned from her. My grandfather, he used to be one of the main ones
too. When I was growing up, 8 or 9 years old, my aunt had a guitar and
when she was by herself I used to ask to play the guitar. She would let
me pluck on the guitar and show me one chord here and one note there,
like that. So she was probably my main influence along with all this music
I heard in the community. Then I had a cousin down in Virginia and he
was very good at playing guitar. During our early teens that's all we
used to do, Piedmont style.
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Q4:
Tell about a book or two that you've read that you think other people
should read.
There are any number of books about the blues that I like. One is by Dr.
Barry Lee Pearson of the University of Maryland and is about Piedmont
and Delta blues, It Sounds So Good to Me. He also wrote Virginia
Piedmont Blues, which features Archie Edwards and myself. Red River
Blues, by Bruce Bastin of England, is a good book, and there are also
several volumes of Who's Who in the Blues, which have bios and
background of the most prominent people in the blues of yesteryear as
well as today.
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Q5:
Why do you like to play the guitar?
I like to play the guitar because of the wonderful sound that comes from
the guitar. It's a rich, melodic sound that lends itself to my emotions
and feelings. It's almost like it's an extension of myself and my feelings.
I can play any emotion on the guitar.
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Q6:
Did you ever write a song yourself?
I've written many songs, some with lyrics and some instrumentals.
They're about almost anything that happens in life, real experiences that
happened in my life. In instrumentals I don't have to have any lyrics
to express my emotions. Some titles I've written are "Black Cat on
the Line," "Blue Day Blues," "Back Biter Blues,"
and I did a new arrangement of the old song "John Henry," which
is featured on CARTS. A CD that's coming out this summer has a new song,
"Meet That Mule Blues."
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Q7:
Who were your influences when you were learning to play?
Some of the blues musicians I heard on records growing up were very influential
on my playing. First was Blind Boy Fuller, a Piedmont blues musician.
Also Reverend Gary Davis played the Piedmont blues. Blind Blake played
a lot of ragtime. He was another of my main influences. Pink Anderson,
Blind Lemon Jefferson were less influential, but I liked them. From the
Mississippi Delta my main influence was Skip James.
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Q8:
Why the blues?
That's what I heard when I grew up. Black folk were the creators of the
blues, and this is what I heard and I fell right in that same mode. Blues
are about the Black experience, what happened in the Black community,
true stories about daily living. There are blues for every emotion, every
feeling, every incident that happens in your life. There are happy blues,
sad blues, intermediate blues, dance blues, you name it. There's a blues
for every occasion. There are many explanations for why this music is
called the blues. I don't really know where the term came from, but I'm
sure it has to do with emotion, feeling, and the blue notes we use. A
person's feelings aren't on one straight line but are up and down, like
a wavy line, up and down. There are some moments when you're at a high
peak, some you're at a low point. It's like looking at the sky and you
can imagine that line is going up and down and that it's really sweet
and pleasing like the blueness of the sky, the blueness of the ocean.
You play a major chord and then add a blue note to it, maybe that's where
it comes from. One student asked me, "Why isn't it the reds, the
yellows, the oranges?" Good question, but I can't really answer that.
The blues, it fits.
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Q9:
Where do you continue to receive inspiration for composing and singing?
Things that happened to me in my life motivate me to write. I wrote
"Black Cat on the Line," and it's related to a true happening
in my life. "Meet That Mule Blues" was something friends experienced.
That's where all the songs come from, my experience or someone else's.
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Q10:
What other kinds of music do you like to sing or listen to?
I'm closely attached to religious music. I grew up in a Christian
home. My father was a Baptist minister, and you can imagine we had plenty
of good church songs going on in our house almost at all times. I listen
to just about all other kinds of music. I like country and western--I've
even been inspired to try to learn to play pedal steel guitar. Bluegrass
is absolutely wonderful. I listen to reggae, symphonies, classical music.
Some rap I listen to, but rap, although it had its roots in the basic
blues, has some lyrics that I'm not really proud of.
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Q11:
Why do you like to sing folk ballads?
A lot of the songs are like oral histories. This music and the Black experience
had its roots in Africa. Griots in Africa played music and mentally recorded
histories of families and life, and they related this to the community
through song. This is the same thing that happens in America. Ballads
and blues are oral histories, how we document what happens. Songs tell
about John Henry the steel driving man. Casey Jones, he was a train person.
Stagger Lee was a mean, gambling man.
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Q12:
Where did you first learn of John Henry?
When I grew up as a kid and we had these get togethers in the country,
almost everyone had a repertoire that included John Henry, and
you were judged by how well you played it. Some played it in open keys,
some in standard keys. And you were judged by how far along you were.
People love this song because it's such a powerful song. The experience
in this song is like in the movies or books, good finally wins over bad.
After tackling this steam drill, this man in human flesh finally overcomes.
This is like one of those hero stories that everyone likes. Although he
died in the end, he accomplished his goals. People like to hear stories
where people win.
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Q13:
What kinds of songs did you sing in church as a child?
Daily experience in life is a little different from that spiritual or
religious side. We all, especially in the Black community coming out of
slavery and such a hard time, found religious music inspirational. It
helped Black folk to overcome and get over the segregation and oppression
that was taking place in their daily lives. This was so instrumental.
After a hard week's work you could go meditate and renew your spirit.
We sang a capella lined-out hymns with no musical accompaniment as well
as hymns with piano and organ, then later guitars and other instruments.
First we started off like the slaves who had no instruments and sang field
hollers, patted their feet and clapped their hands to keep the beat, sang
in groups together a cappella. In the church some of that tradition carried
on. They would line the hymns, like a call and response. One person would
lead off and say a certain phrase, then the whole congregation would respond
in turn. The lead might start off, "I love the Lord. He heard my
cry and pitied every groan." Then the congregation would repeat that
all together. Then the lead sang, "Just as long as I live and trouble
shall rise," and we all responded. This was so inspirational.
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Q14:
How do you compose a song?
A blues is usually two phrases saying the same thing, then one to respond
to what you said in the first place. I'd do two lines of the same phrase
then a third would respond and rhyme with the first two. This is called
an AAB pattern. For example, my new song starts with this verse:
Woke up this morning,
I didn't want to go to school.
Woke up this morning, I didn't want to go to school.
My father said, "Son, you got to get out here and meet that mule."
Start with the lyrics,
then add the music later. First you want to lay down exactly what you
want to say, then you work out the music to it. The music is poetry, but
it's poetry in song. The foundation of it is the poetry, and then the
song comes later. Lay the song on top of the poetry. An instrumental employs
feelings, not lyrics. You're laying down feelings, not lyrics. There are
a lot of feelings you can't put in words so you can put them in music.
You play different notes, up and down, to reflect your feelings.
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Q15:
What was the first song you composed or sang professionally?
When I was able enough to sing, 7 or 8 years old, my mother used to rehearse
my brother and myself to sing as a duo. My first performance was in the
church, and I was so bashful my mother had to take me out in back of the
church to stop me from crying. The first song she taught us was "Daniel,
He Was a Good Man." I was singing the high part, my brother the low
part.
Daniel, he was a
good man, he prayed three times a day.
Angels hist a window just to see what Daniel had to say, say, say.
Daniel, he was a good man, prayed three times a day.
And he said, "I do thank God I'm in his care."
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Q 16:
What's your most favorite song?
I don't know that I have a favorite song. I love so many. There's
a song for every occasion and emotion and it depends on how I feel. I
just love music in general, and that's what's deep inside of me.
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Q 17: Besides
your aunt, did you have other family members who could sing or play?
My father, my mother, almost everybody in my family could sing. I don't
think there was anybody in my family who couldn't sing. We all gathered
around the piano and started singing as a quartet, duet, a cappella, you
name it.
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Q 18:
Are you married? Do you have children? If so, do they like the Blues?
I have been married, and I have seven children, but right now I'm a bachelor.
I'm divorced, but I have a good relationship with my kids. They all like
the blues, but none of them play an instrument.
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Q 19:
Do you use computer technology? Have you visited your online CARTS residency?
What do you think? I'm kind of new at this, like a lot of people.
I do have a computer and I just learned how to receive email, and I've
got a new Web site, but I'm not that good at it yet. I'm just learning.
I'm in the very primitive stages of this computer business. Just from
what I see right now, this is the technology of the future, and it's going
to be really instrumental in the music field as well as all other fields
and endeavors in life. Seeing my section on CARTS is just fantastic. I'm
just more and more amazed by computers and what you can pull up. Sooner
or later I'll catch on to it.
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Q 20:
Which is your favorite Cephas & Wiggins recording?
"Flip, Flop, and Fly" was the first one I was fully satisfied
with. We had some other musicians on there, which gave us a fuller sound.
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Q21:
Do people in other countries know about the blues?
Phil and I have traveled to just about every continent, from China to
Russia, Africa to Australia, where you might not think the blues has made
its mark, but the blues have been there long before we arrived. We were
in Moscow before the fall of the Soviet Union and some young people came
up to us and they were familiar with our European recordings through underground
distribution. They knew Cephas & Wiggins.
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Q 22:
Can you read music?
Absolutely not. I wouldn't know a note of music if somebody paid me
to read it. The music I play comes from the heart, and once you learn
the basic chords you don't have to know the notes, just what chords go
with what chords. If you want to play a certain tune, if you can figure
it out and hear it, then you can play it. Basically, I've developed an
ear over the years. I know if a person starts off with a C chord, then
I know where he's going and I can go with it. Basically it's music that
comes from the heart and from the ear.
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Suggested
Follow-up Activities: What themes do you find in John Cephas's responses?
Compare these themes with themes in your own life in a poem or short essay,
or interview someone in your community about values that have been important
to him or her in life and share results in a written or oral report.
There is a popular
notion that Blues music is about sad times, but John Cephas describes
many types of Blues, noting that they are all about everyday life, happy
times as well as hard times. Why do you think this music is called the
Blues and not the "reds"? Write a Blues song about one of your
own everyday experiences. Use the AAB rhyme scheme that John Cephas uses.
Or paint a picture mixing all the shades of Blue you can while listening
to Blues.
For most of his life,
music was a pastime for John Cephas, not a career. He is also an avid
hobbyist and enjoys building models. Create a presentation on your pastimes
or hobbies, sharing special language or equipment, tricks of the trade,
names of people who've taught you and whom you, in turn, have taught.
If feasible, include a demonstration or lesson for classmates.
Folklorists describe
traditional learning and teaching as activities that occur outside school
in informal settings, with information being passed on by word of mouth
or example. John Cephas learned to play guitar from his Aunt Lillian,
a cousin, and Blues recordings. He also practiced a lot. What things have
you learned from family or friends? What things have you taught? Draw
a picture or write a short essay about the experience. Does it differ
from how you learn things in school? If so, how?
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